One other I'm a bit iffy about as well is the Pitfall. Not for what it is used for on the ground, that is fine. It is what it does when it hits someone in the air that's the problem.
If you hit someone with a Pitfall while they're in the air, they get spiked down really fast. So if you knock someone off the stage and then hit them with a pitfall, it's a guaranteed kill (and it's not all that hard to do, IMO).
Other than that and the Ray Gun, everything looks good.
Oh my gosh, Firemaster! You stole the words right out of my mouth again! I was going to talk about the Pitfall but decided not to because I didn't want to start an argument or seem too picky. Other than those two items, the list looks good to me.
If you hit someone with a Pitfall while they're in the air, they get spiked down really fast. So if you knock someone off the stage and then hit them with a pitfall, it's a guaranteed kill (and it's not all that hard to do, IMO).
If you can hit a moving target in the air with a Pitfall, you're a better Smasher than I. Then again, I suck.
As for Ray Gun... I could see the argument. I'll wait to see what the people who are better than me decide before putting things up either way.
With what? Let's take R.O.B. for example. I have a Pitfall. How do I knock them off the edge? My Up-B doesn't do damage, my Side-B has little to no knockback, using any A move whatsoever will cause me to throw the Pitfall and waste it, and the throw will simply cause him to fling it over the edge. That means I can only knock him off the edge with two of my moves, never mind the fact that those two moves are easy to dodge on their own. The Pitfall combo can only be done with certain characters that have B-Moves that are reliable hitters. R.O.B.'s are reliable, but only in conjunction with his other moves or when the enemy is distracted fighting someone else. When he has the Pitfall, he'll have neither luxury (since, presumably, a sensible opponent would actually ATTACK R.O.B. when he has the Pitfall and not the other way around).
As for the Ray Gun, I don't have much expierience with it when attacking, but a simple fast air fall combined with a Robo-Burner will enable me to avoid it by going to the other side of the stage and grabbing the ledge. _________________ This space for rent.
With what? Let's take R.O.B. for example. I have a Pitfall. How do I knock them off the edge? My Up-B doesn't do damage, my Side-B has little to no knockback, using any A move whatsoever will cause me to throw the Pitfall and waste it, and the throw will simply cause him to fling it over the edge. That means I can only knock him off the edge with two of my moves, never mind the fact that those two moves are easy to dodge on their own. The Pitfall combo can only be done with certain characters that have B-Moves that are reliable hitters. R.O.B.'s are reliable, but only in conjunction with his other moves or when the enemy is distracted fighting someone else. When he has the Pitfall, he'll have neither luxury (since, presumably, a sensible opponent would actually ATTACK R.O.B. when he has the Pitfall and not the other way around).
As for the Ray Gun, I don't have much expierience with it when attacking, but a simple fast air fall combined with a Robo-Burner will enable me to avoid it by going to the other side of the stage and grabbing the ledge.
Down B has good knock back.
Or you could just knock them off, then grab it and throw, depending on how close it is. _________________ Affiliate site:
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The Pitfall should be picked up after the opponent is knocked the stage. Protecting it from the enemy's reach is important so that they don't use it on you. The other possibility is that the player knocks the enemy off the stage, and then a pitfall spawns, so then he/she picks it up and throws it. I've seen both of these situations several times.
Bloody the Marro Stinger wrote:
The Pitfall combo can only be done with certain characters that have B-Moves that are reliable hitters.
The fact that it can be done with any character is enough of a reason for the Pitfall to be banned (in my opinion).
With what? Let's take R.O.B. for example. I have a Pitfall. How do I knock them off the edge? My Up-B doesn't do damage, my Side-B has little to no knockback, using any A move whatsoever will cause me to throw the Pitfall and waste it, and the throw will simply cause him to fling it over the edge. That means I can only knock him off the edge with two of my moves, never mind the fact that those two moves are easy to dodge on their own. The Pitfall combo can only be done with certain characters that have B-Moves that are reliable hitters. R.O.B.'s are reliable, but only in conjunction with his other moves or when the enemy is distracted fighting someone else. When he has the Pitfall, he'll have neither luxury (since, presumably, a sensible opponent would actually ATTACK R.O.B. when he has the Pitfall and not the other way around).
As for the Ray Gun, I don't have much expierience with it when attacking, but a simple fast air fall combined with a Robo-Burner will enable me to avoid it by going to the other side of the stage and grabbing the ledge.
Down B has good knock back.
Or you could just knock them off, then grab it and throw, depending on how close it is.
Down-B has good knock-back, but I already said that. However, it's easily predictable when you have a Pitfall. Just jump above the R.O.B. player and he'll never hit you with an attack while you have the Pitfall.
Also, it can be done with any character, but not only do you have to protect it from the enemy, which can be very difficult if we're playing 4 player tournaments (remember, we play both those and two player ones), you have to hope someone doesn't steal your kill while you're setting up.
It's situations like this I kind of wish we had a list for items banned in certain types of tournaments. I think the Pitfall is qualifiable for that list (2 player tournament banned, specifically). In a four player match, I find it hard to believe that you're going to get it off with no mistake. Once they see you go for it, they'll gang up on you and someone else will take it and attempt to kill you in return after he gets the living stuffing beat out of him. _________________ This space for rent.
I think the Pitfall should be banned in both 1v1 and 4-player matches. I've explained my reasons for 1v1 above. For 4-player battles, people have teammates to knock opponents off the stage. This allows the player to jump in and throw it at the person.
A lot of it depends on where and when the Pitfall spawns. It's a very powerful item if it spawns at a favorable place and moment.
The Smash Ball is legal because it takes skill to use most of them, and that they are all different from each other. Let's take R.O.B.'s. It isn't an instant kill, it's a Superspicy Curry that makes you invincible. So naturally, you use it differently then say, Link's. With Link's, you instead have to aim it and fire away, but it is fairly difficult to aim. Banning the Smash Ball is like banning a part of a character's moveset, which is silly. Plus, you have to attack it first, and if they get it, you can always knock it out of them by hitting them hard.
Heroic Monkey, you're saying that in a 2 vs. 2 match, you honestly expect that one guy can somehow keep one guy away from you and knock another off a cliff so you can hit him while STILL having to be covered by the guy without the pitfall? That's not only extremely difficult, it will only result in the K.O. of one guy, and the poor guy who had to do the work of defending you is likely near-dead, making him awfully easy to K.O. When you try to do that, you'll quickly find out it's basically 2 vs. 1, and we all know how that turns out. _________________ This space for rent.
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You stole the words right out of my mouth again! I was going to talk about the Pitfall but decided not to because I didn't want to start an argument or seem too picky. Other than those two items, the list looks good to me.
