Heroscapers Brawl Resource

johnny139 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: Tournament Legality - Stages

Alright, now, our tournaments here will be more "casual," meaning that stages with minor hazards are okay. As such, I will only be listing ILLEGAL stages. Here's the list:

ILLEGAL STAGES

The main problem with these stages is the focus. In most stages, the main focus of the levels is to fight your opponent, with minor problems in the stage. A majority of these are illegal because they alter the focus of the match - for example, WarioWare is as much about winning mini-games as it is about fighting, Big Blue about staying on cars, The Summit about staying out of the water.

Any stages you want legal? Any you want illegal? Opinions?

Shades fan · johnny139's Team Member Joined: 10 Mar 2008 Posts: 132

I agree with all of the ones you stated!
I think these should be illegal!
Yoshi’s Island= to small for an actual tournament!
Jungle Japes= This is an odd one that wouldn't be good in tournaments.
I think you covered the rest.
_________________

MetaNite · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:36 pm Post subject:

I think 75m is okay. Every bad thing can be easily avoided. What's wrong with Brinstar?

I also disagree with the Summit. Staying out of the water is really only a small part of the stage. And it has yet to interupt my fighting, real fighting.
_________________

Bloody the Marro Stinger · johnny139's Team Member Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 185

First off, Yoshi's Island and Jungle Japes are fine. They're small, sure, but that's good for regular 1 vs. 1 matches.
Second, the Summit is annoying. It's easily possible for an opponent to Meteor Smash you into the fish and kill you. I still think it should be allowed, though.
If Brinstar is that lava wave stage like I think it is, it would be fine if it wasn't for the stupid lava wave that comes from the background. That completely changes the stage and makes it that whoever gets to the Capsule first wins.
_________________
This space for rent.

MadNik · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:03 am Post subject:

Wow, I'm not going to lie, thats a horrible ban list. No offence, I just think its sort of lame that half the stages are removed from tourneys. I can understand the Warioware one, because it does come down to winning the games more than fighting. And they come so often that everyone constantly has invinsibility or something.
But Mushroom Kingdom ban? Rumble Falls? Rainbow Ride? I'm guessing these are banned because the screen slowly moves along with you. That diserves ban? Brinstar... because lava will rise and sting you if you're not on a high platform? If stages are being banned because of little things like that, then how come the Pikmin and Pork City stages aren't banned? They have monsters that will instant K.O. a player. Or the Halberd, since if you're not standing on the platform in the beginning, you get instant K.O.d, along with the fact that the ship fights back.
The point I'm trying to make is that EVERY stage (with the exception of BF and FD) have their own little things that make things a bit more interesting and banning them will just make it seem... limited. One could say that a tournement should be based on skill alone. I could say that it takes skill to be able to dodge the Norfair lava spray and make it into the safe capsule, and that it takes skill to be able to smash somebody into Dialga's Hyper Beam attack.
C'mon, you have to admit its kinda' lame that we're limiting ourselves so much.
And I guess I'm starting to rant here. I'd just like to say, if I do have any say, keep all the stages, they're just as important and unique as the characters.
Except for Warioware...

it does get annoying when someone gets invinsibility every 15 seconds (jk)

And I just took a look at your thread for legal items... I'm just going to say the same thing about them and keep it here. It just adds more to the game.

Please don't hate me!

johnny139 · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject:

I agree, items and stages add a lot to the game. But this is a tournament structure - stages that change the focus of the match from fighting the other players to fighting the stage shouldn't be allowed.

For example - in Mushroomy Kingdom, you do two things - fight other players, and try to keep moving. Norfair, you fight and try and avoid giant walls of lava. It makes the game less about fighting and more about avoiding.

Stages like Halberd are legal because, though there are things that can hurt or even kill you, it's far from the focus of the stage - you continue to fight your opponents and occasionally dodge a lazer or something.

Also, the list has been updated. Brinstar is now legal (a little lava never hurt anyone), and New Pork City is illegal, because it can kill you automatically.

Bloody the Marro Stinger · johnny139's Team Member Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 185

First off, back on Brinstar. Now that I see Norfair is already on the list, Brinstar can't be the lava one. Thus, I think it should be taken off. Brinstar has an easily dodgable hazard.
As for Madnik's concerns, I disagree. Rumble Falls is DEFINATELY off. That is the most annoying course in the entire game. I never liked the Ice Climber course in Melee, and this is pretty much the exact same thing. The camera doesn't even move slowly... it moves FAST. It also has those stupid spikes that force the stage to be a speed contest rather than a battle. Mushroomy Kingdom is a bad stage on the same basis. The camera simply moves too fast and more time is spent running than doing any real battle. Rainbow Ride is okay when you're on the ship, but anywhere else and then it can get annoying fast, though not nearly as much as the other two.
In summary for that, I hardly think the camera moving is a "small thing". It pratically changes the stage into a running contest.
The Pikman stage has some of the most easily dodgable hazards in the GAME. The Bulbin can only kill you if you stand on it, which is highly unlikely. I have not seen a single person stand on it yet. The water really isn't that bad. The Pikman stage doesn't change the focus of the stage.
As for New Pork City, the Ultimate Chimera is also ridiculously easy to dodge. The stage is so large it is actually hard to get hit by that thing. It's a non-issue, unlike the moving camera.
And the instant kill on the Halberd? That is the stupidest thing I've heard on this thread so far, seriously. I have never seen someone get caught not standing on the platform. The platform is so large it takes skill to NOT be on it.
Also, it doesn't take skill to knock someone into Dialga's hyper beam, it just requires you to use the C-Stick and run away. That isn't skill, it's letting the stage do the work for you. The stages that aren't banned actually DO require skill for you to hit someone into a hazard. On New Pork City, for example, the stage is so large that it's a challenge to knock someone into the Ultimate Chimera, but is extremely awarding if you do because of that largeness.
Basically, all the stages up there except for The Summit completely change the focus of the stage. For example, Warioware has the minigames, the moving camera stages make it a speed contest instead of an actual fight, Pictochat and Flat Zone 2 change far too much and can change the course of the game easily because of extreme randomness (though I haven't really played either, so it's up for debate).
If there's one thing I don't get about the list, it's why the Summit is on it. The Summit's only real hazard is the fish, which only appears about once per battle if you're fast. I also request for New Pork City to be unbanned since I find the Ultimate Chimera to be pathetically easy to dodge.
And at any point in this post, I'm sorry if I sound rude and nasty.
_________________
This space for rent.

johnny139 · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject:

The Summit... I dunno. I'd hate to lose in the final round of the tournament because I was standing knee-deep in water. I'll wait to see some other opinions before deciding either way.

Same for New Pork City. It IS hard to hit the Ultimate Chimera, but I would hate to lose it all because it spawned near me.

Lord Pyre · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject:

Rumble Fall should stay banned. That single, stupid spike always kills me...

MadNik · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject:

I would go for the whole ban list for tourneys if it was some kind of International championship, with money on the line, or something like that. But its not, its small online tournement involving like... 20 people? If anyone would seriously be upset about being eaten by a fish in the final match of this kind of tourney, how would they react to losing the final match of some huge state tourney or something like that?

And if you think the instant K.O. on Halberd is near impossible, I'll be more than happy to play against you personally, and keep your ass off of that platform.

(JK)

Bloody the Marro Stinger · johnny139's Team Member Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 185

dragonfire · Solid Scape's Team Member Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 36

Heroic Monkey · Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:42 am Post subject:

Somebody's going to hate me for this, but should we ban Hanenbow and Temple? I just don't see them as good stages for tournaments. Hanenbow has barely any room to fight...and don't even think about dashing. The Temple has too much room to fight, so the players last much longer. The battle is often carried down to the bottom left, where huge amounts of damage are racked up. It takes little skill to survive down there.

Hope I don't seem like a party pooper.

Creationist · Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:46 am Post subject:

I second having the Summit as a legal stage. The fish is only for a portion of the level, and it doesn't come up as soon as you land.
_________________

FC- Sosk 1160-9475-2938

Heroic Monkey · Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:51 am Post subject:

I think the Summit should stay illegal. It's true that the fish doesn't come out as soon as you hit the water, but it's pretty close. It would be especially dangerous if you were in a Pitfall. Even meteor smashing someone down there could cause death to the opponent. It seems like it's just too game-changing.